Silly me. I thought that innovation was all about saying to hell with the social convention of the day. I also thought that Jesus is supposed to be the ultimate role model for how both women and men should conduct themselves as ministers of a gospel of peace and reconciliation.
But I believe that I would be wrong on both counts according to Pastor Mark Driscoll. Apparently innovation is all about subscribing to perpetual social stereotypes, at least with regard to “gender roles.” As Driscroll assesses the situation of Church leadership: “We’re looking around going how come we’re not innovative?” His answer: “Cause all the innovative dudes are home watching football” As for a role model for the Christian life and ministry, well here is just a part of Mr. Driscroll’s offensive, sexist, homophobic, misogynistic dribble:
I’ve got a feeling, you got around Paul when he was a young guy or you got around John the baptist or Elijah – I mean these dudes seem pretty ruff to me. You know, they don’t look like like church boys. You know, wearing sweater vest and walking around singing love songs to Jesus. I mean, guys like David are well known for their ability to slaughter other men. I’ve gotta think these guys were ‘dudes.’ Heterosexual, win a fight, punch you in the nose, dudes. And the problem in the church today is it’s just a bunch of nice, soft, tender, chick-ified, church boys. Sixty percent of Christians are chicks and the forty percent that are dudes are still sort of chicks. I mean its just sad. When you walk in its sea foam green and fuchsia and lemon yellow the whole architecture and the whole aesthetic is real feminine and the preacher is kind of feminine and the music is kind of emotional and feminine and we’re looking around going ‘how come we’re not innovative?’ ‘Cause all the innovative dudes are at home watching football or they’re out making money or climbing a mountain or shooting a gun or working on their truck. They look at the church like that’s a nice thing for women and children. So the question is if you want to be innovative: How do you get young men? All this nonsense on how to grow the church. One issue: young men. That’s it. That’s the whole thing. They’re going to get married, make money, make babies, build companies, buy real estate. They’re going to make the culture of the future. If you get the young men you win the war, you get everything. You get the families, the women, the children, the money, the business, you get everything. If you don’t get the young men you get nothing. You get nothing.
This is all word for word from the above video. And unfortunately, Driscroll does not seem to be alone. Earlier this year several prominent evangelical figures involved with Together for the Gospel movement (including John MacArthur, John Piper, R.C. Sproul) all signed a confession containing a set of affirmations and denials. Article XVI says that men and women have different “roles within the home, the church, and the society.”
Other prominent evangelical voices have spoke out in recent years about the “feminization of the church.” Perhaps, John Eldredge has been the most visible leader in what some evangelicals seem to think is a revolutionary “reclaiming of masculinity.” Eldredge’s books Wild at Heart and Waking the Dead are read and celebrated by men across denominational lines, with book studies often culminating in camping, fishing or hunting trips. The books are full of references to movies like Brave-heart and Gladiator. Eldredge’s wife Stasi has now joined him in coauthoring “Captivating” a book supposedly about capturing the true feminine heart in which she writes:
Beauty is what the world longs to experience from a woman…Pioneer women brought china teacups into the wilderness, and I bring a pretty tablecloth to eat on when my family camps. We wear perfume, paint our toenails, color our hair, and pierce our ears, all in an effort to be ever more beautiful [for an excellent review of this work check out Agnieszka Tennant's article for CT]
Too bad for the woman who is not all that beautiful or the man who is more of the quiet poet than the action/adventure type. They do not exemplify the two-dimensional qualities that “the world longs to experience” from them. And we can talk all day about “inner beauty” or “inner strength” (which of course is all very good, and very important stuff). However, in the end, when ever I hear that as an explanation from defenders of this so called “complementarian” view it just sounds like they are back peddling or covering their bases. Like when John Eldredge turns to talking about inner strength after going on and on about William Wallace.
And what is “complementary” anyway about telling a woman her value is in her beauty or derived from her worth to a man? Or for that matter, in Driscroll’s case, what is complementary about scoffing at men who “talk about their feelings”?
Of course scripture is constantly invoked to defend such views. And it is not my intention here to get entangled in proof-texting debate. I will say however that it seems to be the weight of a social order that developed in a fallen world that best supports such claims and not the weight of scripture.
I am sure that John and Stasi and probably even Mark Driscroll all have good intentions. Unfortunately – whatever their intentions – they seem to be endorsing the status quo more than the seem to be saying or doing anything innovative.
Shalom,
Wayne
Posted by matthewsdraft on October 16, 2006 at 12:34 pm
Wayne,
thanks for sharing your thoughts on the video and the greater “christian” culture that birthed it. i like your closing assessment on good intentions. what i have been trying to figure out, as of late, is what is the gospel for these people? they seem to be interested in being good Americans over and above being good Christians. in fact, it seems they do not even see a meaningful distinction. i think it would do John, Stasi, and Mark well to turn off the TV, and pick up a book that is not written by a white, upper-middle class American. then they might begin to see that what they consider “the gospel” is in reality what the gospel came to undo. namely: maintaining structural and personal modes of oppression.
Posted by Ashleigh on October 16, 2006 at 7:18 pm
Wayne,
I have actually been to Mark Driscoll’s church in Seattle and — I say this sincerely — this guy is a fucking nutjob. As you no doubt know.
Exposure to this type of thinking alternately fills me with fury and depresses me. Still, it comforts me to know that in the self-worshiping estimation of Mark Driscoll, other young men strikingly similar to him will be the ones to “make the culture of the future.”
Nice shout out to Agnieszka, by the way.
Posted by Ashleigh on October 16, 2006 at 7:20 pm
As a sidenote, I’d like to commend Matt on his comment, which is at the same time both more substantive and more charitable than my own. Well done, Matthew.
Posted by Jibbs on October 17, 2006 at 3:27 pm
Good Stuff!!!!
Posted by Christian on October 18, 2006 at 3:28 am
Well said Wayne. Although I love to watch footbal, I can’t work on my truck. I wonder what that makes me. Maybe one of these authors could write about a man who is struggling with this type issue but needs a step by step way to become more masculine. I’ll keep my eyes and ears open.
Posted by dougb on October 24, 2006 at 11:31 pm
Wow, Driscoll never seems to fail to impress me. Reminds me of the tussle he got into with Brian McLaren a few months back about homosexuality and how much of an ass he made of himself.
The things that he said may have some light of merit, and i would have to hedge and say that they do, but in the way that he expresses it drives me up a wall. He’s attempting to be ‘edgy’ or ’shocking’ to get some people to pay attention, and all he does is paint stereotypes and push those who don’t fit his stereotypes farther away. Ridiculous.
and don’t get me started on John Eldredge. I read Wild at Heart, and my reaction at first was pretty good but after some recourse and friendly discussion it turned basically to what i just put in the second paragraph of this comment.
I’m also a little stuffy at the moment because it’s the top of the 9th and tigers are about to blow game 3. Gah.
Posted by Alex on October 27, 2006 at 9:58 pm
Hmmm…honestly, I cannot completely express all of my thoughts on this matter of masculinity/femininity adequately in your comment section. Which is why I would like to go out for coffee (does that make me an “economic girly-man”?) sometime and talk more with you about such things. I have no idea who Mark Driscoll is (though the name rings a few bells for some reason), but I think he has the right idea, but going about saying in the worst way possible. Who knows, maybe he really is full of shyte. His comments, though offensive and skewed, are thought provoking in much the same way the words of someone whom you totally disagree with can be thought provoking. Anyways, I will give you a ring sometime and we can go out and talk about our “feelings” about this and other matters openly and honestly, like real human beings should. By the way, if Mark Driscoll ever read the book “The Scottish Chiefs” by Jane Porter (recognized as one of the most accurate accounts of the life of William Wallace), he would probably be shocked at how feminine William Wallace was, due to the fact that he actually loved his enemies and spared the life of the very man who would kill him in the end. In the words of classic tough guy Wolverine (Mark Driscoll eat your heart out!), “’nuff said”.
Posted by Eric Wieringa on November 3, 2006 at 5:21 pm
I am somewhere in the middle of the spectrum on this one, but you bring up some good points about masculinity and the duel qualities of personality. I myself am far from “Johnny football super star” and would even consider myself to be more of an introvert than a socialite. However, I would hope we can be a little more diplomatic in our approach to the disagreement than suggesting that Mr. Eldridge is less that educated or committed to understanding the gospel, simply because he draws mainstream paralles. I have read “Wild @ Heart” and for the most part you are right, the one-dimensional aspect of the book leaves something to be desired. But at the same time I am not sure it is as damaging as you may think, there are a lot of macho manly men out there who interpret the church as one big AA meeting where large men blubber out their feeling on your shoulder, And not to make light of brokenness, but I think it is o.k. to allow men (at least the type A American man) to see the gospel as strong, give them a reason to fulfill a need that was lost in the garden with something masculine, if the church does not help facilitate this need with-in men, they will seek to fulfill it in perversion.
Posted by Rhett Smith on November 16, 2006 at 5:04 am
dude. good post. I have been blogging about this stuff as well, and I just can’t keep up. the masculine stereotypes are unbelievable and it blows my mind with how narrowely he defines what a Christian guy is supposed to look like…and what he is supposed to do. really unbelievable.
thanks for writing it.
rhett
Posted by Jodi on November 19, 2006 at 10:26 am
The Gender War in America…my goodness, do we have nothing more thought provoking to set our minds on than this 50+ year old debate, Mr. Discoll?
I am so on the same page with you Wayner. This guy doesn’t know his ass from his face, hence him being labled an “ass-face.”
I have no problems with trying to group people together to identify patterns of behavior or thought prossesses. Being trained in Sociology this was my life. However, it is in the lives of those margenalized by these generalizations/stereotypes of what masculinity/femininity “should” be (and “should” is so completely arbitrary I won’t even get started) that my concern lies.
It is in women like myself who have rejected AMERICA’s views of beauty being thin, plucked, lifted, made-up, put-out, and all about “finding THE man” that I cry over when I read about books like “Captivating” or other such books. And for the men I know who in NO WAY typify this masculine archtype Eldridge, Driscoll, and other conservative Christian thinkers say they should be.
I believe what God says about M vs. F is that we are ALL created in HIS image of which he is neither soley Masculine or soley Feminine. He possesses both to achieve balance, well he is balance so there’s nothing to achieve, per say. What I mean to say is that I think we would all do better trying to achieve our own sense of balance and stop bowing-down to the cultural wars of beauty and strength. who wants to really be like anyone the media portrays as the perfect man or woman anyway? They usually have some addiction they’re hiding or have been in and out of marriages like it’s their job or something else THE BIBLE tells us to reject.
I’m rambling, thanks for blogging on this Wayne. You are very articulate and well spoken. I enjoyed it emmensly (sp).
Posted by Leigha on July 20, 2007 at 12:38 am
Although I find many of the arguments against the Eldredges seemingly valid, I hesitate to say that many people get defensive when talking about “unveiling a woman’s beauty” or being “wild at heart.” It seems to me that some people feel the eldredges are saying the church needs to put it’s members in a “fixes cars the Godly way” group or an “angelina jolie look-alike who can act seductive aaannnd sing hymns” group. Let me just say, that however you all took their message to be, the eldredges are not not not calling the men a bunch of sissies and the women a bunch who have “let themselves go” appearance wise. All they are saying is that in each of us God created Warriors, beauties, heroes, poets, lovers, fighters, prayers, singers, ministers, ect. ect. the list goes on. You don’t have to do masculine things to be this poster boy for John Eldredge. He is simply saying to find the inner warrior within your own identity which God has created and latch on to that feeling of strength and adventure. It is not a bad thing to be a sensitive man, or a poet as someone mentioned above. But just because you are sensitive or poetic does not mean you forget that you are called to be a light in a very dark world, and you should already know this involves spiritual warfare, it involves a battle. God commands us to never be afraid, and to go ye into all the world and preach the gospel. John Eldredge is only asking where the fighter’s heart is in the church today? It is within many many godly men that we see everyday whether young or old or quiet, or loud, whether he is a “man’s man” or not it doesn’t matter God created a warrior’s heart in each. God does not say to be righteous you have to be the world’s view of masculine…God defines masculine as fighting the fight set out before you whether it be to get the girl of your dreams or to win a soul over to the Lord by being His instrument, and everyone can appreciate that calling no matter what type of man. And as for the women, Stasi is trying to simply tell women it is okay to want to feel beautiful (and I’m a woman, trust me, we do want to feel beautiful, it may not be our soul purpose to live, but the desire is there and she is saying it is okay to have that desire). What do you do if your husband comes home and says he is taking you out to dinner at a beautiful restaurant, you put on your black dress that makes you look stunning and your favorite earrings and you go and eat (and if you’re me you have the cheesecake at the end, your own piece…not 2/3 of his). Also, she is saying it is okay to be feel vunerable in today’s world where many women are pressured to be completely self-sufficient and unneeding of others period. Look, I am single in a huge city, 14hours away from home, at 21 years of age. I left my friends and family to pursue opera, and sometimes I feel that pressure to “be my best and only friend” or to “look out for me because no one else will.” And sometimes it’s okay to be my own strong fortress, but I often forget to surrender my own wishes and destiny to God and I lose that feeling of peace and vibrance that I get when I am vunerable, and softer. Ladies, it is okay to want to get all dolled up and feel attractive and even sometimes feel like you’re not superwoman, its okay to lose that feeling of yourself controlling everything, God calls us to surrender ourselves to his Will, and to stand in the battle and put all of our trust in him. Any woman can appreciate that. This is not a battle of the sexes, the Eldredges simply intend to remind us of why we are here whether man or woman and what callings of the heart to follow since we live in a very dark time.